Remote heater (without car connected to a charger) is possible via the UVO-app in the new e-Soul, so it could also work with the e-niro.
Maybe we could trace the commands on the CAN from the UVO app, so we can implement it in OVMS?
Is a develope active for the e-Niro?
Really hope to see some more progress on e-Niro. Kia UVO app provides the desired functionallity, however it's not avaliable in my country by MY19. Is only offered on MY20.
This is by far the most important feature. If remote heating is getting developed, I'm getting OVMS.
I would get OVMS in a heart beat if it was capable of precondition the car. Also it would be amazing to be able to change charge settings from the app. None of the charge settings can be modified right now right?
The e-Niro doesn't have editable charge settings, as far as anyone knows. The on-board AC charger simply responds to the max. available current indicated by the EVSE (wall "charger") and draws that much current at 240V (mains supply). Any scheduling, current limiting etc. will need to be done by the EVSE itself. I have an Ohme charger, which schedules according to the Octopus Agile tariff cheapest periods. The benefit of a vehicle app (hopefully provided by OVMS) would be for the charger to read current state of charge from the vehicle. This would mean accurate charging to the level set by the user, using only the very cheapest periods.
Not sure I follow you. You can edit from the car the charge limit both for AC and DC charging and also the intensity. You can set it to low - medium or max.
Sorry, I was working from ignorance - didn't realise you can throttle the charging rate at the car (not sure why you would, but it's good to know you can). Normally you leave the car settings at "maximum" and use the charger app to set whatever rates you want.
I will definitely buy this OVMS, if it also includes the heating / cooling function. in Romania UVO will not be available even at the end of 2022, the answer from the authorized source UVO Europe.
So owner of eNIRO 150kW, yes I want and I commit to buy if the climate function without restrictions is included.
In Romania there are over 20-30 eNIRO owners who definitely want an application for their car.
UVO stops in Austria and is completely absent in the East and I don't think it will come in 2023 either!
Thanks.
If anyone has any good primers for examining CAN data I captured turning on-and-off the heating system (+/- the heated accessories) using UVO just before my subscription lapsed. I've got about 1500 CAN messages to trawl through, and since this is the first time I've done this I'd love any pointers or primers as to how to isolate the information from the haystack of CAN bus info that might be useful in getting this to work. I'm happy to share the CAN data with someone who's got experience in doing this, too!
can you send me the traces you recorded (alkl@gmx.at)? I've done a lot of analysis for the first Soul EV, so maybe i can find something.
Do you know the Kia e-Niro Can messages google doc file? There are already a lot of CAN messages included, so we should be able to assign the can messages in your log to the corresponding ECU`s.
I think we should be looking for a "Input Output Control By Identifier" (0x2F) or "Routine Control" (0x31) UDS command sent to the
Aircondition ECU (CAN ID 7B3) which does the trick :-)
I hadn't seen the Kia e-Niro CAN messages doc file, I'll have to check it out. I can certainly drop you the CSV file... hopefully I caught something useful.
How did you manage to get those messages? As far as I know, they aren't present at the OBDII port (D-CAN). Is there another port accessible with the other CAN busses (C/P/B/M-CAN)?
Unfortunately there are only read commands in the trace (from OBD plug) from Pyoorkate, so it seems the commands to activate the AIRCON are indeed sent via another CAN bus.
I thought D-CAN from the OBD-plug is connected to the IGPM (Integrated Gateway and power control module) which is connected to all other CAN bus systems? So maybe not all messages a routed through the gateway...
In the motor compartment is another, bigger OBD plug with another CAN-bus (Pin 2 & 10), so maybe here we see the commands?
Okay, so has anyone used a Kia 20 pin to OBD adaptor (e.g.
https://a.aliexpress.com/_dXZSL8K) with success? I'm happy to order one but don't want to upset the car or the ovms! However, FYI I no longer have an UVO subscription.
Okay, so, I did just try plugging in the adapter to see whether ovms worked on the diagnostic connector with an adapter (worth a shot, eh!). It does not.
I've pulled some diagrams of the Kia diagnostic connector
https://flic.kr/p/2jY32iL
https://flic.kr/p/2jY29FC
And the diagnostic connector adaptor cable
https://flic.kr/p/2jY33rX
And that's as far as I've got right now. Time is a bit of a precious commodity for me, but I'll continue to try and find time now and then to look at it.
As I understood, Kia UVO is located inside multimedia unit (it has embeded e-sim).
I digged arround and found that multimedia pinout has own CAN pins. Pinout details in both links below:
https://pinoutguide.com/Car-Stereo-Hyundai-Kia/Hyundai_Kona_2017-2019_He.shtml
https://pinoutguide.com/Car-Stereo-Hyundai-Kia/Kia_Niro_Audio_Video_Navi.shtml
(Connector B, pins 7 and 20)
Is it possible that preheating signals can be sent from the multimedia?
Does anyone tried to trace OBD signals from multimedia side? Does it make sense?
Unfortunately I haven't had time to look any further. I suspect we need something like the Fortin Evo-all (which currently does NOT support the Niro EV - but asking them might prompt more development) which exposes signals that aren't normally available on the CAN bus in the cabin.
The other option might be to look at something similar to Comma.ai's old giraffe.
It's possible that this can be controlled from the diagnostic connector but I'm afraid I have had time to even look :(
Hi folks, I just bought an Australian 2021 Niro EV, and I'm interested in taking a look at this functionality. Unfortunately there is no UVO/Kia Connect in Australia (hence my desire for OVMS).
I'm generally technical (my day job is distributed systems at Google but I also tinker with electronics and 3D printers etc), but I don't know very much about vehicles, CAN buses, and so on and so forth. However, I'm on paternity leave and find myself with a lot of time on my hands and an itch to do some low-stakes tinkering.
I've started investigating this a little bit, but it definitely seems like a learning curve. So far, I've tried dumping the CAN bus into SavvyCAN (I found this DBC file to try to interpret it). But so far all I see is a bunch of polls and responses from OVMS to the vehicle, so so far it seems like the OBD port on pins 6/14 isn't actually giving me all of the CAN traffic (maybe there's a different network somewhere or on different pins).
So with that in mind, if anybody on this thread is in the "know roughly where to look but don't have time to do it" kind of place, it'd be neat to get a rough summary of your investigations to give me a better starting point.
Thanks for reading, please do let me know if you have any tips or pointers for me as I try taking a look into this.
So, as I understand it the CAN port that's in the cabin only gives access to some diagnostic information. Kia made the decision to separate it, and so it doesn't carry the CAN signals needed to control the preheating. I did capture CAN logs (quite a while ago) and someone more familiar with reading them went through them and identified that it didn't include any heating commands.
Under the bonnet Kia's do sport a diagnostic port - and you can get a diagnostic port to CAN adaptor (something like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/144367586175 - although I've not double checked that's the right one). Using that was the thought I had for trying to access the relevant CAN information - but I only got as far as discovering that the pin-out for that doesn't match the default pin-out for OVMS's CAN reader, and then stopped due to lack of time.
I've also wondered if the Comma.ai Panda units would provide this access as I think that has access to pretty much all the CAN signals in the car (I have a Comma 2 which I use). I'm not sure if there's any reasonable way to use that access to control preheating though (unless you wrote a custom fork of openpilot, which might be a bit much!)
I encountered the Comma system too, and I was trying to find out where that one plugs into. As far as I can tell, it plugs into the regular OBD2 port, not anything in the engine bay or anything like that. And it seems to be able to control everything, including steering! So maybe not all the messages are propagated across all CAN buses but looking at that project, its code and the way it's installed, it seems hard to believe that it's impossible to do something as trivial as turn on the air conditioning...
The comma system just uses the 12v power from the CAN bus. The actual connection to the CAN system (at least in the Niro) is up with the front facing camera hidden behind the rain shield.
Interesting, how do you know? I assumed that it was just tapping into the camera feed because, well, it needs a camera. What I figured was that the RJ45 was probably being used for data transmission from the OBD-2 port, since even though you can send power over RJ45, Comma seems to be using a USB-C cable for that. But it sounds like you found out a bit more somewhere else?
Remote heater (without car connected to a charger) is possible via the UVO-app in the new e-Soul, so it could also work with the e-niro.
Maybe we could trace the commands on the CAN from the UVO app, so we can implement it in OVMS?
Is a develope active for the e-Niro?
Really hope to see some more progress on e-Niro. Kia UVO app provides the desired functionallity, however it's not avaliable in my country by MY19. Is only offered on MY20.
This is by far the most important feature. If remote heating is getting developed, I'm getting OVMS.
Mising remote heating feature is the only thing that is holding me back from buying ovms, I still might buy it later on.
I would get OVMS in a heart beat if it was capable of precondition the car. Also it would be amazing to be able to change charge settings from the app. None of the charge settings can be modified right now right?
The e-Niro doesn't have editable charge settings, as far as anyone knows. The on-board AC charger simply responds to the max. available current indicated by the EVSE (wall "charger") and draws that much current at 240V (mains supply). Any scheduling, current limiting etc. will need to be done by the EVSE itself. I have an Ohme charger, which schedules according to the Octopus Agile tariff cheapest periods. The benefit of a vehicle app (hopefully provided by OVMS) would be for the charger to read current state of charge from the vehicle. This would mean accurate charging to the level set by the user, using only the very cheapest periods.
Not sure I follow you. You can edit from the car the charge limit both for AC and DC charging and also the intensity. You can set it to low - medium or max.
Sorry, I was working from ignorance - didn't realise you can throttle the charging rate at the car (not sure why you would, but it's good to know you can). Normally you leave the car settings at "maximum" and use the charger app to set whatever rates you want.
If it will support remote heating i would buy it in an instant.....
If anyone has any good primers for examining CAN data I captured turning on-and-off the heating system (+/- the heated accessories) using UVO just before my subscription lapsed. I've got about 1500 CAN messages to trawl through, and since this is the first time I've done this I'd love any pointers or primers as to how to isolate the information from the haystack of CAN bus info that might be useful in getting this to work. I'm happy to share the CAN data with someone who's got experience in doing this, too!
I suggest you look at the SavvyCAN tool. That is pretty useful.
You can extract all the IDs active on the bus up until the time you press the button, and then look for anything new.
Hello pyoorkate,
can you send me the traces you recorded (alkl@gmx.at)? I've done a lot of analysis for the first Soul EV, so maybe i can find something.
Do you know the Kia e-Niro Can messages google doc file? There are already a lot of CAN messages included, so we should be able to assign the can messages in your log to the corresponding ECU`s.
I think we should be looking for a "Input Output Control By Identifier" (0x2F) or "Routine Control" (0x31) UDS command sent to the Aircondition ECU (CAN ID 7B3) which does the trick :-)
BR, Alex.
I hadn't seen the Kia e-Niro CAN messages doc file, I'll have to check it out. I can certainly drop you the CSV file... hopefully I caught something useful.
How did you manage to get those messages? As far as I know, they aren't present at the OBDII port (D-CAN). Is there another port accessible with the other CAN busses (C/P/B/M-CAN)?
Unfortunately there are only read commands in the trace (from OBD plug) from Pyoorkate, so it seems the commands to activate the AIRCON are indeed sent via another CAN bus.
I thought D-CAN from the OBD-plug is connected to the IGPM (Integrated Gateway and power control module) which is connected to all other CAN bus systems? So maybe not all messages a routed through the gateway...
In the motor compartment is another, bigger OBD plug with another CAN-bus (Pin 2 & 10), so maybe here we see the commands?
Okay, so has anyone used a Kia 20 pin to OBD adaptor (e.g.
https://a.aliexpress.com/_dXZSL8K) with success? I'm happy to order one but don't want to upset the car or the ovms! However, FYI I no longer have an UVO subscription.
Any news on the progress of remote heater starter?
So I have got the Kia 20 pin diagnostic to OBD adaptor. I haven't tested it yet, finding the time is a challenge!
Okay, so, I did just try plugging in the adapter to see whether ovms worked on the diagnostic connector with an adapter (worth a shot, eh!). It does not.
I've pulled some diagrams of the Kia diagnostic connector
https://flic.kr/p/2jY32iL
https://flic.kr/p/2jY29FC
And the diagnostic connector adaptor cable
https://flic.kr/p/2jY33rX
And that's as far as I've got right now. Time is a bit of a precious commodity for me, but I'll continue to try and find time now and then to look at it.
Lots of stuff here. I'm looking into contributig to the code but am not sure where to start looking.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1eT2R8hmsD1hC__9LtnkZ3eDjLcdib9JR-3Myc97jy8M/htmlview#
As I understood, Kia UVO is located inside multimedia unit (it has embeded e-sim).
I digged arround and found that multimedia pinout has own CAN pins. Pinout details in both links below:
https://pinoutguide.com/Car-Stereo-Hyundai-Kia/Hyundai_Kona_2017-2019_He.shtml
https://pinoutguide.com/Car-Stereo-Hyundai-Kia/Kia_Niro_Audio_Video_Navi.shtml
(Connector B, pins 7 and 20)
Is it possible that preheating signals can be sent from the multimedia?
Does anyone tried to trace OBD signals from multimedia side? Does it make sense?
Any news regarding this functionality?
Unfortunately I haven't had time to look any further. I suspect we need something like the Fortin Evo-all (which currently does NOT support the Niro EV - but asking them might prompt more development) which exposes signals that aren't normally available on the CAN bus in the cabin.
The other option might be to look at something similar to Comma.ai's old giraffe.
It's possible that this can be controlled from the diagnostic connector but I'm afraid I have had time to even look :(
Hi folks, I just bought an Australian 2021 Niro EV, and I'm interested in taking a look at this functionality. Unfortunately there is no UVO/Kia Connect in Australia (hence my desire for OVMS).
I'm generally technical (my day job is distributed systems at Google but I also tinker with electronics and 3D printers etc), but I don't know very much about vehicles, CAN buses, and so on and so forth. However, I'm on paternity leave and find myself with a lot of time on my hands and an itch to do some low-stakes tinkering.
I've started investigating this a little bit, but it definitely seems like a learning curve. So far, I've tried dumping the CAN bus into SavvyCAN (I found this DBC file to try to interpret it). But so far all I see is a bunch of polls and responses from OVMS to the vehicle, so so far it seems like the OBD port on pins 6/14 isn't actually giving me all of the CAN traffic (maybe there's a different network somewhere or on different pins).
So with that in mind, if anybody on this thread is in the "know roughly where to look but don't have time to do it" kind of place, it'd be neat to get a rough summary of your investigations to give me a better starting point.
Thanks for reading, please do let me know if you have any tips or pointers for me as I try taking a look into this.
So, as I understand it the CAN port that's in the cabin only gives access to some diagnostic information. Kia made the decision to separate it, and so it doesn't carry the CAN signals needed to control the preheating. I did capture CAN logs (quite a while ago) and someone more familiar with reading them went through them and identified that it didn't include any heating commands.
Under the bonnet Kia's do sport a diagnostic port - and you can get a diagnostic port to CAN adaptor (something like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/144367586175 - although I've not double checked that's the right one). Using that was the thought I had for trying to access the relevant CAN information - but I only got as far as discovering that the pin-out for that doesn't match the default pin-out for OVMS's CAN reader, and then stopped due to lack of time.
I've also wondered if the Comma.ai Panda units would provide this access as I think that has access to pretty much all the CAN signals in the car (I have a Comma 2 which I use). I'm not sure if there's any reasonable way to use that access to control preheating though (unless you wrote a custom fork of openpilot, which might be a bit much!)
Hope that helps.
I encountered the Comma system too, and I was trying to find out where that one plugs into. As far as I can tell, it plugs into the regular OBD2 port, not anything in the engine bay or anything like that. And it seems to be able to control everything, including steering! So maybe not all the messages are propagated across all CAN buses but looking at that project, its code and the way it's installed, it seems hard to believe that it's impossible to do something as trivial as turn on the air conditioning...
The comma system just uses the 12v power from the CAN bus. The actual connection to the CAN system (at least in the Niro) is up with the front facing camera hidden behind the rain shield.
Interesting, how do you know? I assumed that it was just tapping into the camera feed because, well, it needs a camera. What I figured was that the RJ45 was probably being used for data transmission from the OBD-2 port, since even though you can send power over RJ45, Comma seems to be using a USB-C cable for that. But it sounds like you found out a bit more somewhere else?
I have one... and I interviewed a senior engineer there a while back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk9stHPYdUc
:)
If I may ask, does Comma work with the lastest Kia Niro EV model (2022/2023)?
Any progress?